Tuesday, May 17, 2005

ISLAM 2 ......

I got many interesting responses to my last post regarding Islam and I want to thank everyone who contributed to the comments section of that blogg. Many frank and honest questions were raised and many kind words were said.

In my last post I tried to explain why Muslims seem to find it so difficult to openly criticize their religion. I also tried to address the issue of the abuse of Islam by clergy and politicians to serve their political agendas. Today I will try to address the political nature of this conflict and how that might reflect on Islam. I hope that none of you will be offended.
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The recent outcry and riots, by Muslim around the world, in response to the rumours of the desecration of the Qur’an in Guantanamo has raised many eyebrows amongst people who still view Islam (the ‘religion’) as the problem.
I do agree that it seems absurd to see so many Muslims all around the world rioting and proclaiming ‘Jihad’ and death to America, simply because of a rumour that some soldier at Guantanamo might or might not have flushed the Qur’an in the toilet. The naturally conclusion that anyone would form is that it is the teachings of the Qur’an that obliges us Muslims to do that.

You would be correct to assume that. The Qur’an does state we must not allow anyone to desecrate our holly book on punishment of death. The Qur’an is supposed to be the earthly manifestation of Gods words so to flush it in the toilet is like flushing God himself down the toilet, (I went into the issue of the Qur’an in my last ‘Islam’ post. Please go back and read it).
Did you know that it is actually an offence to even put the Qur’an on the ground, so imagine what flushing it down the toilet means; Eternal damnation in the seventh level of hell, I suppose…;)) ( I jest ).

It is also true that not many Muslims bothered to take a stand to calm or rebuff these rumour or stop these riots. But all of the above have more to do with politics than the religion itself. (please allow me to explain. read on)

All the above is true, but I think that the most critical insight one can make into all of this is possible by carefully observing the nature and content of the Arabic and Muslim media. For example. in the past three days we have had nothing but the usual reports about; -- ‘Israel building some more settlements’, ‘Americans died in Iraq’, ‘Brave Iraqi resistance fighters blow up more freedom loving traitorous children’, ‘More American operations in Iraq’, ‘More Israeli Operations’, 'Palestinians die in Gaza', 'Hizb Allah bravely engages Israeli forces in south Labanon', and so on and so forth..

And of course, their favourite subject lately, hours and hours of Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib abuse accusations topped with the latest rumour of the Qur’an desecration incident.

Unfortunately, it is very clear that we are living in a World War. The Eastern Muslim world is openly and clearly at war with America and Israel. And both sides use Islam and the media as weapons and tools of convenience in this conflict. In opposite ways of course.

The Arab world abuses Islam to justify a cause and to unify people behind this cause. Religion has always been a powerful unifier of people at times of war. And Islam lends itself very well to being used in this way. At the same token, the West observes every opportunity to vilify Arabs, Muslims, and anyone who supports them in order to justify and support their actions, views and goals.

This is a classical psychological case of conflict polarisation. When two competing factions are in conflict, both sides try to find any excuse to vilify the other in order to dehumanise and humiliate them, and thus make it easier to justify the war and killing of the other. History repeats itself. We have seen this strategy in principle played out throughout history for as long as there were people in conflict.

When millions of Muslims in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Palestine, or wherever go out on the street and proclaim death and destruction to America and Israel with the same breath and sentence, it is not because of the desecration of the Qur’an or the perceived insult to Islam. No. It is simply another excuse for the general muslim population to vent their anger and frustration towards their favourate enemy.
America's continuing historic support for Israel and its continuing perceived injustices against the Palestinians and Muslims around the world is what is driving these mobs to the streats. Islam is simply a tool and a banner conscripted by the Clergy as a ‘rallying flag’ to unite as many people behind their political agenda.

I know this subject has become like a bit of a caricature.
‘We’ve heard it all before’ – I hear you say. ‘Why do the Arabs and Muslims always return to Israel as the scapegoat and justifications for their own in-action?’
Well, and without any apologies, the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is, and has always been, at the heart of this problem.

Islamo-fascism didn’t come to life on the day Saddam was toppled, nor was it born on 9/11. Islamo-fascism was created through a long process of bottled up Arab and Muslim humiliation going back to the 60’s and 70’s. The lack of Democracy and freedom in all Arab and Muslim countries throughout these past decades has simply caused the pressure to finally blow the cork in everyone’s face. Not least America, on 9/11.

The problem is that America and the west, has until very recently, seen no reason to deal honestly with the concerns of the general Arab street. Of course, they have always dealt favourably with the majority of the dictators of the region for as long as they continued to serve Americas economic and geo-political interests at a time when the cold war and the communist threat was the priority for the pentagon. This all changed on 9/11 and I truly believe that America has finally woken up to the fact that it must finally deal positively with the Arabs and the issue of democracy and freedom. (very late in the day, I’m afraid)

However, Its very difficult to try to convince Arabs and Muslims of America's genuine intensions after decades of self interest, especially when nothing is seen to be done on the Palestinian-Israeli front.

Not long ago I was introduced to a Palestinian guy who was in his mid to late twenties. This guy was a refugee in Germany whom had in the passed 6 years travelled the whole of Europe without papers or any particular direction to his life. His story is very sad and typical of many Palestinians that I have met in Europe. Most see no hope for Palestine or in an eventual equitable settlement there.
Anyway, this was around the same time that Saddam Hussein was captured in that rat hole of his. So we got talking about life, politics and Saddam, etc……
The first thing this guy said to me is how much he admired Saddam Hussein, that he was a real Arab patriot whom was willing to stand up to both America and Israel. Naturally I was shocked and began to tell him about how I felt about Saddam and his mass graves and abuses of power etc. etc.. His reaction was not that untypical of many Arabs that I meet, he insisted that it was all lies and that it was all American fabrications and its fault. I quickly changed the subject ;-))
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This, i hope, give you an idea of how much we Arabs are willing to accept tyrany and dictatorship if only that tyrant or tyrans can promiss to regain our Arab Pride and honur and to wipe away the shame and humiliation of the past 50 years.
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Then, we got talking about Palestine and how that maybe Abu Mazin (who was wrestling with Arafat for the PLO leadership at the time) can bring about positive changes and help open a dialogue with the Israelis.
You know what this guy said to me –
‘ To hell with Abu Mazin. To hell with Arafat, and to hell with the PLO. To hell with all Arab leaders they are all hypocrites. The only people who can help us are the clerics. They are the only ones who can bring about the chaos that we need to destroy Israel and the world and to liberate Palestine’.

You know, those words still resonate in my ears to this day. What the Arabs want, What the Islamo-fascists want. What the Palestinians want. Is not Islam nor the Qur’an nor the rebirth of Mohammed nor even the return of the Caliphs of the olden days.
No, what they really want is to bring down America and world order. They want chaos because they see that as the only way to for them to liberate Palestine and regain their, all so important, false arabic 'Pride and honour'.
This is what’s going on in Iraq. The terrorists don’t care about the outcome in Iraq. They don’t care about Democracy, Saddam, the return of the Ba’ath party, or even the Islamaficaton of Iraq. All that is important is to create such chaos in the Middle East and the world that eventually the world will be forced to do something about solving the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.
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Coming back full circle; Yes, I do agree with you, we Muslims do need to put more effort into facing up to our clergy and the bad parts of our religion.
I thought that’s what I’ve tried to do with both of my ‘Islam’ posts. Many other Muslims around the world are also trying to do the same. So please give us some slack.

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And to answer the question that many have asked me, -- ‘ Why isn’t there more Muslim or Arab condemnation of the twisted form of Islam used by the terrorists to attack America, or Spain, or Bali, or Iraqis, in the name of Islam, or when we have demonstrations calling for an all out Jihad against America and its allies?’
The answer to that is simple - We can’t condemn Islam. Because deep down we know that its got nothing to do with Islam itself, and that its simply a weapon used in a war that many are happy to see continued. It all boils down to how much you believe that an open and continuing war with America, Israel and the west would serve the interests of the Arab and Muslim world. And how Islam can be used in this conflict.

I for one Don't, Many on the other hand do…….

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Time will only tell where the future will take us, but I’m sure that as long as the march of modernity continues then eventually all of this will disappear one day soon. The question is how soon? And this question depends not only on Muslims but also on the rest of the world. We Muslims do not live in a vacuum

There is no simple Black and White. Only shades of Grey.

Akbar.

124 Comments:

At 3:16 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good post. Thanks for your thoughts. You can not change the past but you can go forward. A couple of issues

The current US administration is serious about promoting democracy in the ME. Most American are very idealistic.

Cold War policies in the Middle East were not helpful but not the cause of all problems in the ME. Arab people and leaders have to shoulder alot of the blame for autocratic governments, human rights abuses, economic stagnation ect.

If you disagree with something that happens (the Koran desicration) in the West, don't tear up you own countries (ie Afganistan).

The Isreali/Palistinian issue needs to be solved but both sides bear blame.

People are people and most of us want the same thing. We should be able to work out our differences. Having visited the Middle East, I can say it is a facinating place with very nice people.

Joe

 
At 3:59 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Submit to the headgames and logicless ambiguity and you will go to some promised paradise. Help propogate the cult and rank even higher. No thanks.

 
At 6:18 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Akbar...What a wonderful post. I think it's your best. Do not worry about being honest. We like being able to talk.

There are a some things I noticed as you wroye that I might have a different view on and would like to share.

When you said that the US was serving its own interests and not serving the Arab Street...Most Americans understand that we had a terrible burden.."Making the world safe for democracy"..they called it. We had nuclear attack drills as children in our schools. At one point my father had to pay 90&
marginal tax rate to pay for the Cold War.

The dictators in the region held all the cards. If the US didn't go along with their interests, they would woo the Russians...Sadaam and Syria did that quite well. Living under communism was similar to living under Sadaam and containing them was better than the Middle East having to live under all that.....The Arab street has always assumed we had more power than we did. We are not magicians. It was always a choice between bad choices. We had to make ourselves a target to protect Europe. We saw it as a sacrifice so that the whole world wasn't forced to live like that.

Again...the Arab-Israeli conflict...Sometimes its like the Arab street thinks we don't want to solve it and if you just fight us hard enough we will do it. I see the suffering of the Palestinians just as when I was a child at dinner our parents said, "Eat all your food because children are starving in China." We saw problems all over the world.

Most Americans do not understand why Israel is humiliating to Arabs. They see the humiliation and yet they still can't understand.

cont...

 
At 7:15 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

'thinker' continues....

From an American's point of view...the Jews sort of were forced out of the Middle East...and then mistreated and forced out again from other places and so returned as a Semetic people just seeking safety thinking the only way to be safe was a state where they couldn't be mistreated. So what if they are not Muslim? Most Americans wouldn't even know what the Crusades were if there wasn't a movie. People came here to escape the Europeans too. We don't even think like Europeans.

Many here see that the Palestinians have been used and mistreated by their Arab neighbors..keeping them in a terrible state so they will fight...refusing the normal democratic solution...compromise.

People here think...'We didn't decide to create Israel....we just don't want another genocide. I used to support the right of return.. Extremism has convinced me it won't work. It is a genocide waiting to happen. We don't want to see a genocide of Muslims either.

An American might say....We didn't humiliate..before the war in Afghanistan we were the largest financial donor to Afghanistan. We are the largest donor to the Palestinians. We fought in Bosnia to save Muslims. We are 'People of the Book' and idealistically tried to save the right to believe in God and tried to protect you from the Russians who outlawed all religion. We were trying to help Afghanistan defeat the Russians. I never heard a bad word about Islam in my entire life until this year.

Interestingly...I HONESTLY don't think the US is using Islam as a whipping boy for tactical gain. They really aren't. There are some groups and individuals here that are afraid of radical Islam. No other people in the world say 'God is Great' while killing others. As you say, people want to counter the twistedness that is coming out of it. Some think its gone crazy...mixed up with fascism. You should know that 80% of our mosques are now controlled by Wahabbis and moderates here are concerned.

What is the real cause of the feelings of lost pride? Who the hell cares if you cannot be the greatest warriors in the world? Hell...go for Nobel prizes. Win at creating civilizations where people like living. That is where its at anyway. Who wants to destroy? Build...create...We would rather cure cancer than fight wars. We will help you like we did the Japanese and Germans. You are not alone.

I see the feelings of shame as a civilizational stage that all go through. The trick is to sublimate all those agressive feelings into action within Global limits(not killing but creating). Its beginning. I can feel it.

Freedom is helping people not feel humiliated because there's the beginning of hope. We want you to suceed so badly. And, as we get to know you better...we really do care about you.

Please remember though that there is suffering all over the world. We are not magicians like many think.
With Highest Regards to you...
thinker

 
At 7:48 AM, Blogger Rosebuds said...

You ask us to give you slack in the face of the silence of muslims when they witness homicide bombers and the constant preaching of the supposed islam scholars who scream "death to amercia and israel"...you have got to be kidding...America and Israel are not innocent but you and your silence are DEAFENING and because of YOUR SILENCE the deaths continue...make no mistake it is your silence that perpetuates the deaths and you should be screaming and yet all you do is write in a blog...shame..shame..shame on all of Islam!! Where is your Ghandi!!! This fight would have been over 30 years ago if any scholar in your religion had a soul, sadly all Islam is about now is death and you have no one to blame but yourselves and your silence!

 
At 9:10 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Akbar...the above poster is typical American in that Americans HATE killing. This last intifada had the opposite effect of Palestinian goals. It made Americans wonder if the Arabs were crazy. Do they love killing and war? We pressure Israel to compromise ...why don't the Arabs pressure the Palestinians? Why don't the normal people pressure the fanatics? This is something people do not understand.

Having a blog is enough. You are speaking your mind. Good on ya!

 
At 9:11 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oops! I forgot to say 'thinker' in the above post.

 
At 11:06 AM, Blogger Akba said...

Dear Thinker,
thank you for your kind words and your wonderful post in this comment section.

 
At 7:18 PM, Anonymous Don Cox said...

I think it takes some courage for a Muslim today to speak his mind in a blog. ____ There are no riots in America or Europe demanding death to Arabs. Even after 9/11 there were no riots. ___ I wish this comment system would do paragraphs.

 
At 10:10 PM, Blogger Soldier's Dad said...

If the Palestinian Issue gets resolved, what happens to the Zionist conspiracy theory?

Without the Zionist conspiracy theory, who loses power?

 
At 1:12 AM, Blogger rc said...

akbar
this is my first post, and i appreciate the dialogue. but how can anyone blame the "jews" or "zionists" for muslim aggression? violence against non-muslims has been going on since mohammed's jihads in the 7th century? please explain to me your understanding of these terms (forgive my spelling)!: jihad, dhimmi, jizya, taqqiya, dar-al-harb, and who are the children of pigs and monkeys? i am not trying to be disrespectful, i would truly like to understand how these terms can be used in a 'peaceful' way?

 
At 6:07 AM, Anonymous Scott from Oregon said...

akbar--Good stuff. It is people like you who may actually complete the bridge across tomorrow...


rosebuds up there needs to consider Western history and its histrionic death sequences.... Violence permeates the globe, and is not just an Islamic trait. The Japanese in China. The US in Vietnam. The Russians in Afghanistan....Blah blah blah blah blah.

Better we all seek denouements devoid of violence and bigoted pronouncements....

 
At 9:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Meanwhile we give millions to the Palestinians, but the people are still poor. The Palestinian Authority puts that money in Swiss accounts for themselves, or uses the money for weapons to blow up children and people going about their day on bus', in pizza parlors, markets etc . There are billions of dollars in accounts that Arafat set up, money that was intended to improve their infrastructure and to feed the Pals. Then we in America are disgusted when we here about honor killings for the crime of a girl wanting to marry the boy of her choice. Killings done by their own fathers, brothers and uncles. Homosexuals being thrown off buildings. the problems with the Arabs/muslims with jews has been ongoing way before Israel ever became a state. Tribalism in Islam, tribes fighting other tribes, Afgahnistan tribal warlords are an example of that.

and Israel is expected to give up land they won by war. When in history has a country given up land that they fought for and won.

It is very hard for us to believe Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance when we read from the Koran(I have read it twice and it scares the hell out of me). And this is just the english version. Many bilinguals tell us the Arabic versions are worse.

Koran 9:29
Fight those who do not profess the true faith (Islam) till they pay the jiziya (poll tax) with the hand of humility.


Koran 8:12
Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them."

Koran 47:4
When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Then grant them their freedom or take ransom from them, until War shall lay down her burdens.

Koran 4:144
Believers, do not choose the unbelievers rather than the faithful as your friends. Would you give Allah a clear proof against yourselves ?

Koran 5:33-34
The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is Forgiving, merciful.


Until the moderate muslims stand up and fight and instill reforms in Islam, there will never be peace, and the muslim world will continue to live in the 7th century.

 
At 9:42 AM, Blogger gbaikie said...

The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is actually a Muslim-Jew conflict. The underlining reason for the conflict is that Muslims hate Jews. If the Jews were instead of being Jews were a group of Muslims there would never have been a conflict. Not to say that Muslim don't fight other Muslims, but you all the wars with Israel were based solely on the fact that people you were fighting were Jews.
This hatred of Jews is influenced by Nazism. Another influence appears to be related with Saudi Arabia obsession about not having any non-muslims in their country.
I don't understand why Iran is interested in fighting Israel, other than perhaps some Muslim sect is trying to score brownie points in this somehow "all important conflict". Or maybe Iran's "trip" is more to do with Anti-Americanism. Who knows?

 
At 9:43 AM, Blogger Akba said...

last Anonymous,
Please consider my last post about 'Islam'...and he historic context of the Qur'an..

Dear RC,,
Land Won by Israel in the war with the Arabs does not give them an excuse to keep it...If we follow this logic then America would have a claim on most of Europe,Japan,south east asia, afghanistan, and Iraq..
The two wars between the Arabs and Israelis were caused through a complicated series of events which i will try to write a blog on some day soon.

 
At 9:55 AM, Blogger Akba said...

Dear gbaiki,
This notion that Muslims have always hated the Jews is a completely erronious one...Let me currect this misunderstanding...Before the Israeli arab wars of the 60s there were substancial Jewish Communities in all of the Arab countries...Thet lived in peace and harmony in these societies without any persecution. In faxt many of the jews of Iraq, Egypt,Syria, Jordan, Labanon, Moroco, ageria,,etc...held promonent positions in governments and society...... this notion that we Arabs or Muslims have always hated jews is a completely erronious one..
Anti Jewish arab sentament is simply a very recent event and is directly linked to the Palestinian conflict...

 
At 10:07 AM, Blogger Akba said...

Dear RC,
Sorry,,i answered the wrong question for you,,,that comment above was supposed to be drecyted for anonymous..

regarding the THEW TERMS jIHAD, Dal alherb, Ta'kia,,,etc..etc..that Muslims now a days shout about... Please understand that these are simply terms used for the same purpos. They are statements banded around to justify this war. this is what i've been trying to explain to you.. When the Clerics want to Raise passions in the Muslim world, the best way to do so is through the use and abuse of these Arabic words that have certain historic and religious over tones....

 
At 10:33 AM, Blogger gbaikie said...

Akbar-
I know. Some Arabs at one time wanted and welcomed the Jews to return to Israel. Why not, the area was poor and it was thought the Jews could helps bring prosperity to the region. But there was a Nazi influence which brought the seed of unreasonable hatred. The Jews also brought in their communism ideology, the feverish Zionism, and most brought a general liberal socialism/marxist claptrap notions that probably cause any sane person to drink. Plus the Jews were mostly from urban populations and urban people can in general be quite annoying.
That Jews were going to cause some trouble was predictable- if they had instead move to the heartland of the US they probably would pissed off quite few of the locals, but they probably would not have started a war. And if they did they wouldn't have drawn into the conflict Canada, Mexico, and Japan.
Like I said this is about Muslims hating Jews. I'm not saying that Jews were not responsible for causing this situation. But the primary reason why this can not be resolved is because of present day muslims hating Jews. All your problems are being blamed on Jews and this isn't vaquely reasonable.

 
At 10:57 AM, Blogger Akba said...

Dear Anonymous,
both the Jihadist and the critics of islam always Quote the Qur'an as if is just been written last night... those verses were written over 1500 years ago and are directly related to events that were occuring when the profit was alive...they are not relevent today..(please read my post 'Islam').
When the Jihadist abuse the use of those verses to justify the killings today they are wrong.
It is also wrong to brand Islam as an Evil religion by selectively quoting individual verses like this.
I've tried to explain all of this in my two 'Islam ' Posts...

Some other qur'an verses.

004.002
To orphans restore their property (When they reach their age), nor substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their substance (by mixing it up) with your own. For this is indeed a great sin.

004.005
To those weak of understanding Make not over your property, which Allah hath made a means of support for you, but feed and clothe them therewith, and speak to them words of kindness and justice.

004-075
And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!"

004-171
O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only a messenger of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His messengers, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one Allah; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

Just a few verses that i thought might be interesting..

 
At 4:24 PM, Blogger Akba said...

this is what the above verses mean to me....

1-Take care of orphans intrusted into your care. Dont steal their inheritance from them. Don't abuse their rights. Because god sees all and will ask you what you did on judgment day.

2-Treat the handicapped and less able people in society with kindness and care. God intrust them to you and will judge you on your actons.

3-In Gods name you are allowed to fight (jihad) to free others from opression and dictatorship. It is a Muslims duty and obligation to speak out against and actively strugle against any opression wherever that may be.
this is what true jihad is all about in my view.

3-People of the Books don't argue amongst yourselve. God is one. He is eternal and everywhere. Stop your arguments and follow the teaching of the profits that he sent down to humanity.

Islam can be a very powerful force for good. Most of the Qur'an deals with these issues and its only a small percentage of it that is dedicated to War and Jihad.

PS.I wasw raised as a Muslim, and i've read the whole of the qur'an a couple of times. So I like to think that know what i'm talking about.
I'm sure by now most of you have realised that i'm not religious at all. I Don't really belive in any religion. I believe in Allah/God, but not religion as they were first concieved all that time ago.
With time and education many other Muslims will start to recognise the Historic context and relevance of the Qur'an and start to move back to its basic messages of social justice and tolerance.

 
At 3:29 AM, Anonymous rc said...

akbar,
i don't dispute that the most violent clerics bring up these terms to fire-up the jihadists, but, how can you/we/us re-define these terms in order to promote understanding? in other words, the clerics can bring up literally hundreds of sunnahs and suras to prove their point...but there are precious few islamic verses that obviously promote peace.
kindest regards,
rc

 
At 3:33 AM, Anonymous rc said...

akbar,
israel was not formed by conquering an arab/muslim state, it was formed to provide a homeland for jews who were first kicked out of their homeland by the romans. there was never a historical 'state' of palestine ruled by arabs. palestine was so named by the romans to wipe out the memory of the jews and teach a lesson to the rest of the conquered people in the empire.

 
At 3:39 AM, Anonymous rc said...

akbar,
furthermore, pakistan was created at about roughly the same time as israel...because muslims could not get along with non-muslims and they wanted their own state (sound familiar?). and at that time, there was a huge population exchange between india and pakistan...the same scenario happened many times in africa in the 20th century (i.e. population exchanges). why is only israel demonized and forced to give back land that they won in a defensive war (1967)? secondly, why didn't palestinian arabs create their own state when gaza was occupied by egypt and judea and sumeria occupied by trans-jordan (today's jordan)?
kindest regards,
rc

 
At 4:58 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

RC...I don't think you can justify any country or land etc. based on WHO used to live there. By that standard..Australia should go back to the the Aborigines, etc. Basically you just have to use reason and common sense around the world on a case by case basis along with compassion, history, and pragmatism. In the Arab/Israeli conflict...let's just negotiate a settlement.

Akbar...thank you.

I'm going to put my toe in the water here and share a few thoughts about Islam.

cont...

 
At 5:25 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh...thinker continues....

I have only one concern about Islam....

The way I see it the Islamic texts are fabulous and beautiful for sophisticated, mentally healthy, well-educated people.

There are people though in every religion who are literalists. They can't see metaphor, or context. Psychologists see this a lot in people with borderline personality disorder. School teachers all have students who have a hard time seeing beyond the literal. There are incredibly bright people that read religious texts literally with no metaphor or context.

The Koran does have verses that can encourage people with these problems to be violent, be harsh with others, etc. It is rather shocking to most people around the world to learn that a religion...any religion...has rules for war for instance.

The problem is that the literalists CAN twist it. So can the clerics. For various reasons such as the tendancy to fuse the political with the religious...and the thinking that it is the perfect word of God...I don't know how to get around that.

And then what do you do with all the people that think literally and can't see metaphor or context?

How to solve it? This perplexes me.

 
At 7:13 AM, Anonymous Running Waters said...

Akbar,

Great post. I would add, though, that the underlying reason that the Palestinian conflict is at the heart of Muslim rage towards Israel and America is precisely because the dispotic regimes of the Middle East have collectively identified Israel as their "external enemy" as a means to maintain control of their populations. The establishment of an external enemy by dictators is historically a common method used to direct internal hostility towards an external subject to effectively keep that hostility away from the ruling governments. Remember, dictatorships care only about holding on to power. This requires them to suppress freedom. Creation of an external enemy through propaganda and control of information is one of the primary methods for ensuring their grip on power.

In other words... The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is largely a huge hoax perpetrated by Middle East dictatorships. But, the hoax has created a real conflict, and that is just what the dictators wanted. The presence of a Jewish state gave them the perfect target. The truth is that there are many societies around the world that are far more suppressed and ill-treated than the Palestinians and many of those societies are within the Arabic world. And, yet, the hatred is focused, not on the Arab dictators, but on the Israeli Democracy.

The Arab dictatorships have been masters at re-directing the emotions of their populations in this manner (The Soviet Union provided them with a good example). But, unlike the Soviets, the Arab dictators have used the institution of religion (Islam) to further keep a strangle hold on their subjects, and the Koran provides a perfect context. It seems as though, while the Muslims in the Middle East are showing signs of wanting to break free from political tyranny, they find it very difficult to break free from the tyranny of the book. And, this is being used masterfully by the political tyrants of the M.E. Through control of media and education, they keep their populations focused on the teachings of the Koran, which, as preached by fundamental clerics, seems to contradict the virtues of Democracy and individual freedom.

But, once Freedom gets a good foothold in the Middle East (and I believe this is happening now), nothing will stop its momentum. I believe that the natural human desire for freedom is too strong to hold back indefinately. In the Soviet Union, once they gave a little, the whole system faltered and came crashing down. This is happening now in the Muslim world, but becaus of the added element of Islamic fundamentalism, there is an added internal conflict among the people in the M.E. that could get very nasty (what's going on in Iraq now is a possible precurser). Ultimately, people of the Middle East will have to choose whether to embrace individual freedom, Democracy and the more moderate teachings of Islam, or to fall victim to the Wahabis who seek a renewed Islamic "empire"

 
At 7:44 AM, Anonymous Running Watters said...

Akbar, one more thing. I think this statement from your post is off-target:

"The West observes every opportunity to vilify Arabs, Muslims, and anyone who supports them in order to justify and support their actions, views and goals."

There may be a cultural mis-understanding here. People in the West, and Americans in particular, tent to be openly critical of people. But, this does not mean that we want to harm them. On the contrary, by being critical, we want to help. Most Americans who supported the invasion of Iraq want to see Iraqis (and all Middle Easterners) enjoy the same freedom and opportunity that we do. We supported the invasion precisely because we believe the people of the Middle East have what it takes to build Democracies and embrace freedom if given the opportunity. But, in this process, we will always be openly critical and, at times, harsh. This is different that the "villification" that you speak of. If you want a real example of villification in the West, you should find plenty among the liberal left who villifies the Bush Administration and Tony Blair every chance they get. In fact, it seems they care more about that than seeing Iraqis gain a stable free Democracy. That's the irony of this conflict and it's a great example of how we are now in 4th generation warfare. The lines between war and peace are more blurry than ever. It's the people that support the war that have more concern over the citizens of the invaded country than the people who oppose the war. This is a consistent observation of mine--people who support the war are genuinly interested in the well-being of the Iraqi citizens while many who oppose the war are more interested in using the negative events of the war for political firepower, but have little actual regard for the well-being of the Iraqi citizens. You only have to look to their silence over the attrocities committed by Saddam in the 80s and 90s to understand this. They proclaim outrage over the few thousand civilian casualties of the war, but not over the hundreds of thousands of victims of Saddam's regime.

 
At 1:26 PM, Blogger Louise said...

You are a very wise man, Akbar. I find it very perplexing how the so called Arab street will use the West's longstanding support for Arab dictators as one of the reasons to hate the West, yet at the same time will rally around the worst of those despicable characters and consider him a hero. Illogical in the extreme, if you ask me.

I would disagree with those who ask why you don't condemn the twisted version of Islam. It's those who create and foster the twisted version of Islam that need to be challenged and they seem to have a very powerful, intimidating grip on most Muslims' psyche.

So, what you do need, IMHO, are some very courageous leaders; a small core of visionaries who will losen the intimidating grip of those who exploit the ego needs of disparing young men like that Palestinian.

The clerics feed the egos of such wretched ones by fostering impossible dreams which can never be met, and by doing so, they set themselves up in life-long careers, the success of which is dependent on keeping their wretched hero worshippers filled with hate and hopelessness.

So not only do you need courageous leaders. You also need realists who don't have overblown ego needs of their own.

 
At 1:39 PM, Blogger Louise said...

Akbar, I don't know much about the Koran, but this passage gets to the core of what should inspire the visionaries who I hope will soon emerge.

"Believers, conduct yourselves with justice and bear true witness before God, even though it be against yourselves, your parents, or your kinsfolk."

 
At 7:17 AM, Anonymous rc said...

anonymous,
but jews have lived in 'palestine' for thousands of years...and christians have lived there for over 2,000 years...i'll say it again, there has never been a 'state' or 'country' called palestine ruled by anyone...it was an open territory populated originally by pagans...then by jews and christians. arabs (then turks) overran the middle east and north africa from the 7th century on...but never thought enough of 'palestine' to make it a state. if you look at travellers logs, as well as the various mandates official documents...by the 18th century, palestine was a virtual wasteland. then, in the 19th century, when jews began to PURCHASE palestinian lands from arabs...and made the desert bloom..only then did arabs flood into palestine to find a better life, and good for them. in fact, during wwII, the brits did not allow jews to emmigrate to palestine...which resulted in 6 million dead jews. continued

 
At 7:32 AM, Anonymous rc said...

finally, i don't wish to argue over land rights. but i have questions. what does indonesian muslims killing east timorese christians have to do with israel? what does southern thai muslims killing thai buddhists have to do with israel? what does muslim chechyns killing russians have to do with israel? what does arab muslims in sudan killing and enslaving christians and animists in southern sudan have to do with israel? what does albanian muslims burning hundreds of christian churches have to do with israel? what did the iran/iraq war have to do with israel? what does murdering journalists in nigeria over comments about the miss world pageant and muhammed have to do with israel? what does the murder of theo van gogh in holland have to do with israel? what does the gang rape of australian girls (australian pigs...as said by their lebanese attackers) have to do with israel? what does the falsely reported 'flushing' of the koran, and the subsequent riots and murders in afghanistan, gaza, pakistan, iran, and syria have to do with israeal? i can go on and on. get the picture? there is no other religion on earth that evokes such hatred of the 'other'. i don't want to paint all muslims with a broad brush, but i wish more muslims like akbar were far more vocal. for instance, Free Muslims Against Terror held a rally in wahington, d.c. this pat saturday.....50 people showed up..and most were not muslim. i am grateful for this group...but the lack of attendence speaks volumes.
kindest regards,
rc

 
At 4:09 PM, Blogger Jeffrey said...

I am sick of this crap about "Arab and Muslim" humiliation.

You fucking LOST every damn war that you've engaged in. Get OVER it already. There is NO FUCKING WAY any Arab military is going to take on a military that defeated both the Germans and the Japanese in a 2-front war. And the Germans and the Japanese had very good armies. I'm sorry, I have many Arab friends, but the Arab militaries are a damned JOKE. C'mon, what the fuck. Get real.

Agaisnt the Irsralis: 47, 49, 56, 67, and 1973. Gulf War I and II.

The Germans and the Japanese were defeated in WWII.

Do you see them talking about "humiliation"?

They built strong democracies with the help of the Americans.

Arabs, wake up and smell the coffee.

*

 
At 4:43 PM, Blogger Akba said...

Calm down Jeffrey, take a breather.. I'm not Raed, so if you are interested in a slagging match then please go to his Comments section and knock yourself out...

Both the germans and the japanese got over it, as you say, because they recognise they were to blame for WW2. they were the agressors and instigators of that war. In contrast, this Arab muslim / Israeli / American conflict; who to blame is not so clear cut ....

 
At 4:45 PM, Blogger Louise said...

Hey Jeffrey, I just stumbled across a very illuminating and humourous blog from Syria. It's worth a read. The thin veneer of the APU is cracking. It's called Syria exposed. Check it out.

 
At 4:48 PM, Blogger Louise said...

akbar, I agree with the "who to blame?" thing about how this conflict got started, but why it continues 50+ years later, despite reaped illustrations of utter failure, is another matter. Some new perspectives are needed. Perhap asking who started the war is the wrong question.

 
At 4:55 PM, Blogger Louise said...

reaped = repeated

 
At 5:22 PM, Blogger Akba said...

Dear RC,
I apreciate your comments, but i Do think that you are very blinkered in your views.
Palestinian / Israeli Issue aside (My next Blog will address the history of that conflict).
Your comments regarding Muslim Agression is both unfair and unreasoned. You are allocate blame to Islam when itas actually a geo political issue of that region..When I wrote about Israel i did try to specify the Arab Muslim link and how that relates to the current terrorism in Iraq and the middle east. All those other Examples that you give have their own political and social factors..
1-Chechnya -- Oil rich region in the Caucases. A strugle for independance. The only reason why Islam is involved there is bacause the majority of the population is Muslim.
2-Sudan -- Rich oil resourses discoverred in the Darfor region. currupt government instogating a policy of genocide in order to free up the land rights for that region.
3-Iran/Iraq war...A geo political strugle instigated for oil rights over the shat al Arab region in the south.
4-Albania -- Part of a wider conflict in the former Yogoslavia. have yoyu ever heared about Bosnia?..and the death of tens of thousands of Muslims in the concentration camps there..I'm sure they showed that on CNN.
5-Rape -- Are you seriously suggesting that the actions of a few criminals who proport to be Muslims are caused because of the Nuslim religion..
5- Flushing of the Qur'an -- I went into that in length in my post.( please read it again ).
6- Nigeria Miss world -- A bad isea from the start...immagine having miss world in Afghanistan or Pakistan..similar consequences...But you can have it in Turkey, Dubai, Lebanon, Morrocco, and even Egypt, without a singe person getting hurt.
7-East Asia -- Geo political socially motivaed conflicts.
8-Holland -- A wrong killing of an innocent man...I do not condone it one bit.
I hope i havn't missed anything.
Please pen your mind and your eyes..the world is not black and white. and Islam can not be held resonsible simply because the people of that region who are involved hapen to be Muslims...its more complicated than that..
with all due respect
Akbar

 
At 5:28 PM, Blogger Jeffrey said...

Akbar,

Okay, I'll try to calm down, but I've had it with Islam. I don't give a crap for Islam. I'm an atheist and all I know is that I was here in New York when Muslim fanatics flews planes into buildings here. I saw the large holes and smoke pouring out and I smelled the stink of death for two weeks after 9/11.

Israelis have defeated the combined Arab forces SIX TIMES already.

Deal with it, Akbar.

I'm on your side, but today I've simply become overloaded with SHIT from Arabs and Muslims. The hypocrisy is too much.

*

 
At 5:35 PM, Blogger Jeffrey said...

Akbar,

When the vast majority of terrorism around the world is conducted by Muslims, ISLAM HAS A PROBLEM.

Are you honest enough to acknowledge this? Or are you another apologist for Bin Laden and his crew?

Sorry, Akbar, I'm going to play hardball with you today. You're a Muslim. I'm an atheist. China has 1.3 billion atheists. Japanese are atheists. And the world rolls on. I HATE religious fanatics because they will kill others for their phony ideas. Today's religious fanatics are MUSLIM. Are you man enough to acknowledge this?

If you can't reform Islam and Muslim fanatics continue to terrorize people, we will use EVERYTHING in our arsenal to kill those people. End of story.

*

 
At 5:56 PM, Blogger Akba said...

Dear J,
I think my posts are quite clear on this whole subject.
I don't apologise for Bin laden or any of these terrorists, but at the same time i don't see why you are so eager to blame Islam for this..If you can't seem to understand my logic in these two previous posts then i'm afraid we will agree to disagree..
I'm not here to pick sides Jeff. Its not them or us here. I only wish that eople, both Muslims and non Muslims, that this whole dirty busness has more to do with a cultural conflict than a religious one...

akbar.

 
At 6:07 PM, Blogger Akba said...

Let me remind you of the IRA, Shinnning path, ETA, BANGAL tigers, Timmothy Mcbane, Columbia terrorism, Cambodia genocides, etc..etc.. Each and every one of these examles are terrorist ones, but at the same time each and everyone of one saw justification in their cause and actions because, from point of view they served their political agendas.

 
At 6:18 PM, Blogger Akba said...

i abhore all forms of terrorism, especially the current Jihado terrorism that has been so promanent these past 10 years...
But you are very wrong to blame it all on Islamic teaching...
thats all i have to say on this matter

akbar.

 
At 7:06 PM, Blogger Louise said...

akbar, if I may, my friend Jeffrey is very passionate about this, and who can blame him. He is a New Yorker and 9/11 happened on his doorstep. But he and RC have asked some good questions and pointed out several stark hypocrisies that very few Arabs have dared to discuss.

You and a few of the bloggers and some Arabs living in the West (and I should say Muslims, as well, because I know they are not one and the same), are among the notable exceptions who are beginning to speak up.

When I suggested that "who started the Arab/Israeli conflict" is the wrong question, I believe one of the many, many right questions that need to be asked is why can't the Arabs and Muslim people address their inability to examine these questions. It's not as if they have examined them and found the exercise to be useless.

There is no denying that great masses of Arab and Muslim people have heretofore refused to acknowledge that any part of the responsibility for all of these travesties to which RC and Jeffrey allude, could lie within their own house.

This is what the dictatorships of the past 50+ years and centuries of the radical and rigid sects of Islam have accomplished: a complete inability to reflect on ones own behavior, and to take responsibility for it, masked (ie, kept in a state of denial) by an autocratic fixation with a hopeless cause - Israel.

And while I'm at it, I might suggest one of the other questions that should be asked, if the exercise in self-reflection takes its full course, and that is:

What has caused the Arabs to remain so weak, while so much of the rest of the world became modernized and technologically powerful? (It's not just the United States that is far ahead in the game, or even the white skinned, Europeans and their offshoots like Canada or Australia. Think of Japan, South Korea and other places in the Far East.

The Arab world has such great potential. Why have they become frozen in a time that the rest of us left so very long ago? Many of those other terrorist groups you mention were met with loud, persistent opposition from moderate, intelligent people in their respective countries. Yet the governments and many of the people in the Arab world seem to think denial is the proper response when dealing with their own terrorists, or worse, financing and training terrorists. What is that has led to this state of affairs?

And the really big question: Why did so many Iraqi expatriates petition governments in the Western world to intervene on their behalf to topple the tyrant? Where were their own brethren??? And if these brothers had wanted to help, could they have???

The answers to these these questions alone are essential ingredients to a solution to the problems the Muslim world has.

I would love to hear your views on these points. I suspect you may agree that these kinds of questions need to be asked by Arabs of themselves. Frankly, I think the Jeffrey's of the West would become much calmer if these issues were addressed openly, and if, after several years down the road, that has been accomplished, there could well be a substantial shift in the Arab Israeli conflict.

Right now, the way I see it, the Palestinians and the Arabs right now would have no idea what to do tomorrow morning, if Israel just disappeared. They would still have the same problems and would have neither the technology nor the institutions that would enable them to rise up and be part of the family of modern nations. If their governments had spent even half as much effort in the past 50 years developing modern institutions and useful technologies than they did fostering a feeding frenzie of hatred and beating a dead horse (the Israeli-Palestinian thing), 9/11 wouldn't have happened and Jeffrey would not be making such threatening sounds.

 
At 7:40 PM, Blogger Jeffrey said...

Akbar,

My apologies if I've been too blunt. We agree on the evils of fanaticism. Timothy McVeigh was a fanatic. But my problem with Islam is that there are many Muslims who are fanatics. You are a moderate Muslim and I appreciate that. I am at times a loud-mouthed hot-heat and I apologize in advance if I'm too irritated and offensive.

How would you like it, however, if on the side of the Empire State Building we painted a very large picture of bombs falling on Muslims and wrote "Death to Muslims!" like in Tehran?

How would you like it if at almost every Christian sermon the priests and pastors called for the death of Muslims?

Again, I am an atheist. I don't follow any religion and I think these so-called "holy books" are for CHILDREN. But I respect your belief in children's stories. Just don't try to kill my people in the name of some old stories.

Akbar, both you and I know this dialogue between the believer (you) and unbeliever (me) would have to take place at some point, right? Might as well be now.

*

Louise, that comment was very eloquent. Thanks for writing clearly what my angered mind was blocking me from saying.

*

 
At 8:06 PM, Blogger Louise said...

No problem, Jeffrey. I've seen too much of your good side to know that what you were saying here was just your utter exasperation. However, I am still hopeful and I think you and akbar can have a dialog, even if it may bristle at little, on occasion. That, afterall, is what has been missing. The ability and willingness to come back and work it through.

 
At 8:09 PM, Blogger Akba said...

My dear friends,
bot your comments have excellent merit, and i do see your points.
the issue with the Arabs is similar to many third world countries, Its just that the spotlight is on them right now, We rant and rave about american and western injustices just like the rest of the world, You only need to read some of the comments posted by the south american anti- american Contingent to realise how deeply intrenched Anti - americanism is.
the reason for This, i'm sure you will agree with me, is very complex. In the arab world we do rant and rave about our Dictators, especially after they get toppled,(Iraq and saddam case in point), Iraq was on the way to becoming a modern and rich country in the late 60s and early 70's. It is no doubt of the fact that it was one of us who made this whole big mess that we find our selves in 30-40 years later. However, the west and america does have to answer for its silence and support for such ,regimes that litrally cut our tongues off when we speak, Its your countries that buy our oil and pay our dictators the billions of Dollars that keep them in power and the Arab people in shakles. As i said before, we have all a case to answer for, this is not a simple case of you pick your leaders so you live with your choices. Its more to it than that.

and PS, I've mentioned it before, but i'll mention it again..even though i was raised as a Muslim, I Do not believe in Islam or any other religion for that mastter. I still believe in the notion of an all incumpassing power that may be discribed as GOD / ALLAH, but not religion. I think that religion is a bagage that society could definaely do without. SO when i deffend Islam I'm not doing it because i want Islam to continue, but because i think that a religion should not be soly blamed for a problem that has more complicated causes than that. If we do not strive to examine the true causes of the roblem, how cn we ever hope to reach a solution to that problem.
Kindly yours
Akbar.

 
At 8:17 PM, Blogger Jeffrey said...

Akbar,

You're a good man for sure. What I just read from you is amazing. Thanks for being reasonable with me when I went nuts with anger for a bit. I'm old enough to have been a college student in 1979 when the "Death to America" chants took over in the Middle East. And, as Louise points out, I was teaching here in New York when the Islamic terrorists yelled "Allahu Akbar" as they smashed into the two World Trade Center towers. Every now and then I just get FLOODED with anger. I hope to maintain my sense of reason as well as you do.

Thanks again for your patience.

Jeffrey -- New York

*

 
At 8:31 PM, Blogger Akba said...

Dear Jeffrey,
I do apprecate all you comments and oppinions. and I thank you for them. I got a bit tetchy with you as well because i don't want my blog or post section to turn into a slanging math like the one that I see Raed (the other Iraqi blogger) has turned his blog to.
The internet is a beautiful invention where people can come together and discuss issues and understand their differences coulturally or otherwise.
Its technology and modernaty that gives me hope in the future. It may take a hundred or a thousand years, but humanity in all its coulars and creeds will eventually be one. Its just a shame that we will probably not live long enough to see it in our life time.

Kind regards.
akbar

 
At 8:34 PM, Blogger Fayrouz said...

Jeffery (my hot-tempered friend),

Please, cool down. Have some beer man.


Akbar,

Jeffery is a very nice person. He just has this hot-temper problem because of the 9/11. My husband had the same problem during that time.

You're doing a good job moderating this difficult subject.

 
At 8:39 PM, Blogger Louise said...

akbar, I hope you will indulge me if I ask a few more questions in reply to your remarks. When you talk about the West buying Middle Eastern oil and thereby keeping the tyrants in power, does not the rest of the world also buy Middle Eastern oil?

And what role, if any, do you ascribe to the Cold War as part of the structure that kept tyrants like Saddam in power. I think the tyrants did a very good job of playing one side off against the other and that is how they stayed in power. Iraq had a series of dictators that did just that - and they weren't "picked" by their people, as you say.

Certainly the Soviets propped up just as many tyrants as the US did and if the US had simply ignored the Soviet Union, would things have turned out better or worse? I know asking these sorts of "what if" questions about a by-gone era is rather pointless, but still, as you say, there is a complicated context to every problem and "the blame American for everything all the time" mantra which so many simply parrot, is, at best, downright simple minded.

I personally believe we are entering a new age (George Bush Senior's "New World Order"), and I hope the Arab world will be part of it. They certainly have the raw materials - both economic and intellectual potential - to be among the most powerful nations in the world. They just have to focus on what will get them there, rather than what has kept them mired in the past, IMHO. They need to let go of the Israel thing and get on with the job of nation building. Israel's existence does not stop them from doing that. It's their fixation on Israel that does.

 
At 8:40 PM, Blogger Akba said...

Ps..I'm sure you guyz have noticed that i'm a terrible speller...i hope you guyz don't mind. I never check my spelling when i right the comments....;)))

 
At 8:41 PM, Blogger Louise said...

fayrouz, everytime you step into a room a feeling peace envelops me. You are wonderful. America is blessed to have you.

 
At 8:42 PM, Blogger Jeffrey said...

Fayrouz,

Whew! Thank God (can an atheist use this phrase?) that Akbar has a cooler head than mine. Yes, I have a beer now. A Japanese beer that is very good.

Akbar,

Yes, I understand about the reference to Raed's blog. I have decided to ban myself from his comments pages because every time I go over I indulge myself in flame-wars with the Baathist sympathizers. I can appreciate why you fear my presence here attracting that horde onto your blog. That lowering of discourse would be a shame for your fine blog.

*

 
At 8:43 PM, Blogger Louise said...

akbar, take it from another terrible speller. I don't notice my own, let alone someone elses. Normally I'm in too much of a rush to do a good proof read. I'm afraid I'm missing something and I want to get back to who has said what, while I'm typing. ;)))

 
At 9:04 PM, Blogger Akba said...

Dear Louise,
You are right about the Soviet thing...the Soviets actually , In my oppinion, have more to blame for this legacy than the Americans. (the europeans have alot to blame as well, but lets leave hem out for now).
However, the soviet are no more, and America remains. I think that the problem that the average Arab street has always had with the Americans ( and i think this is might be a controvercial point) is that we never understood why America never cared about what happens to us. We actually always looked up to America and had wished her to be our favourate partner. But like a rejected bride we felt betrayed when america favoured Israel or our Dictators over us Arabs in the street.
I still hear stories from my parents and grandparents of the good old 50-60 when American cars and fasion were considered the hight of society and sofistcation in Cairo, Bayrout, Demascus, Baghdad..do you know that Girls used to wear mini skirts openly without a hint of critism from anyone. (you try that now and the girl will get linched)...
America, Soviet Union, Cold war, Arab Dicatorship,,,has left a deep scar in the middle east..I hope that we can help to mend it...

Regarding oil,,you are currect that the whole world buys this oil, however, the largest oil companies that operated and continue to operate in the middle east are american or European owned.

 
At 9:54 PM, Anonymous Muhannad the Iraqi American said...

Al Qaeda desecrates the Quran EVERY DAY.

Now having said that, I want to remind people here, especially my Amerian friends, that the majority of the Palestinian people really were kicked out of their homes in 48 and 67, and many of them ended up in the West Bank, Gaza, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, and other Arab countries (and a few non-Arab countries - google 'Edward Saiid'). When we lived in Baghdad we befriended a Palestinian family (Christian) who fled the war of 67 and were not allowed to return to their home in Jerusalem. This happened to thousands of Palestinians, and the Arabs still remember Al Nakba (the catastrophe) of 1948. Americans are also becoming more educated on this subject.

Check this out: Palestinian Diaspora

 
At 10:00 PM, Anonymous Desert Pig said...

Every day, all over the world, we are confronted by the primitive blood lust of the savage Mohammedans. Every day we are subjected to their threats and abuse. Surely it is obvious to everyone by now that Muslims are determined to conquer the world and drag it back into Seventh Century darkness, imposing their barbaric code upon those whom they suffer to live.

This cannot be permitted to continue. The civilized world must defend itself against these subhuman savages. Perhaps some of the youngest children can be saved and re-educated, but the reality is that most, if not all, Muslims must be killed. Like rabid dogs, they cannot be cured.

 
At 10:05 PM, Blogger Akba said...

Deasert Pig,
go back to Raed's comments page. You and he are two sides of the same apple.
You don't belong here and you are not welcome.
.

 
At 10:13 PM, Anonymous Muhannad said...

two sides of the same apple. good one akbar:)

I have also met Arabs who thought Saddam was a great leader, the 'shiznit' as young Americans like to say. In 1998 I ran into an old friend from college - his mother was Palestinian and his father was Saudi. We talked about politics and he told me that he believed that Saddam would soon become the leader of all the Arab world. I was shocked and I told him about what Saddam and his boys did to Iraq. He answered "well Iraq needs a strong leader". I was sort of disgusted by that answer and I tried to convince him that Saddam is a terrible leader, but I could see that nothing would change his mind. I guess some people's minds are made up and there's no changing them.

 
At 10:20 PM, Blogger Akba said...

Saddam and the Saddam's version of the Ba'ath took one of the most modern, developed, and forwrd thinking societies in the mddle east and 30 years later left us with what you see today.
He is the despot of despots. He could have built iraq into one of the most wonderful countries in the world.
May he forever be curses in this life and next. What a disaster for us and the world.

 
At 10:22 PM, Blogger Louise said...

Akbar, your comment at 9:05 is bringing tears to my eyes. Blogs are wonderful, aren't they. You have a great skill, with or without good spelling.

You have summed up in a few short words a point of view I have never heard expressed before - well almost never. My old, recently deceased father-in-law was an Iraqi banker who was a young married man raising a family in 1958, when the first violent coup took place. I only met him a few times, but it was obvious he longed for the days when the British were Iraq's closest friend from the West.

The old man was terrified of loud noises. He would startle and it would think of the many so called revolutions that he had witnessed. My hope is that these blogs can bring Iraqis and the rest of the Arab world closer to the West again. I think you are right that the US has vilified the Arab world, but then the dictators and other ideologues have not presented a very endearing image for them to learn from either.

But, we live in a new era. There is always hope.

Let me give you a tip. Deal decisively with the trolls like desert pig. They can ruin a blog and sabbotage that precious dialog that simply must take place. I'm afraid it has happened at Iraq the Model. I don't even want to visit there any more. BAnning them is not censorship. It is keeping the dialog respectable and productive.

 
At 10:35 PM, Blogger Akba said...

Dear louise,
Hope springs eternal,........... we must look towards a better future for Iraq and the middle east. I truly believe that the day will come when Arabs and Iraqies can once again be proud of themselves through their achievment and development.
You are right, we have so much to contribute to the world. we have so many talented people and natural resourses. We must move forward, and find away. All is not lost. Our history and culture is too old and too rich to allow this 'blip' to define our future.

 
At 11:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Akbar....Brilliant!

You hit the nail right on the head.
You articulated the problem..

You said basically that you thought the real problem was that the Arab street thought the US didn't care about them.

That my friend is the heart of the problem!

But, as others have said...the Cold War and the USSR had a big hand in this.

The other problem is that the Arab Street has never understood what was going on at any particular time or had a complete World View that the US had to have.

Yes. Palistinians lost their homes.
But more people probably die of Aids in a month...vacinnations worldwide save more lives. Stalin killed tens of millions...the same problem in China...naziism too. Look at Africa right now...their peoples problems are ten times worse than anywhere else and have been for the last 100 years.

None of the Arab countries take refugees and treat them as citizens. The US takes refugees from all over the world.

In the Arab-Israeli confict...both sides are victims and the way we figured it...if Israel were weak....MORE people would die. And they beieve that this loss of property could have been solved long ago. Clinton tried. He said the problem he had was the inability of the Palestians and particularly Arafat to give up fighting. Likewise, there were people before him that tried..and people before him....In whose interest was it to keep the conflict alive?

Let me ask again...In whose interest was it to keep the conflict alive?

 
At 11:35 PM, Blogger Akba said...

Thnk you all for your comments,
I'm calling it a night.

I will leave you with this streamed video given by a renouned British Oxford professor,
Please watch it (its very interesting),,It poses many questions and is directly related to the middle east and its oil.

http://www.rz.tu-clausthal.de/realvideo/event/peak-oil.ram.

If you want to know more ..then you can visit this massage board which discusses this topic

http://www.strategytalk.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2843&view=previous&

 
At 11:36 PM, Blogger Akba said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 11:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

thinker continues...

I wasn't precise about my refugee comment...but lets move on...

In whose interest? Russia, the dictators, the radical Islamists, etc. Most people do not realize that the US is only 2% Jewish...and it is 2% Muslim as well. Most Jews in America are Democrats. Most are moderates on the conflict.

 
At 4:13 AM, Anonymous rc said...

akbar,
i also appreciate your views, but to call all of these tragedies 'geo-political', negates the fact that the islamists committing these crimes are ALL calling for muslim states, under sharia law. the islamists make it very clear that the kufr should convert, become dhimmi, or die. juat a few days ago, on official palestinian tv, a cleric called jews (not israelis) "a virus like aids, infecting the world". islam is the one religion where politics IS religion. and about the rapes in australia, they are important when taking into account the women were raped because they were kufr...this ties into the problems in noway where over 65% of rapes are committed by muslims...who (as i last i checked), are only 3% of the population. i have always been open to all religions and cultures (i have a Phd in Anthropology, not to sound self-important, but to let you know that i have studied under the most left-wing, anti-jew, anti-american people imaginable), and i cannot for the life of me understand people, who, according to a hamas spokesman, 'love death', and want to become shahids. i don't believe my views are 'blinkered', i can see with my own eyes what the clerics are saying. and i'll say it again, akbar, where are all of the peace-loving muslims? i see muslim governments going nuts about the fraudulent koran flushing, but not one word about muslims slaughtering muslims in your country...that is just insane...and if that's geo-political, then arab/muslim states need to re-adjust their moral compasses.
kindest regards,
rc

 
At 4:21 AM, Anonymous rc said...

sorry, i forgot to source where i heard the palestinian imam compare jews to the aids virus.
www.memri.org and www.pmw.org.il/ (sorry, i'm html impaired, in other words, i suck with computers!). also, in case you were wondering, i am not jewish, i'm a non-practicing catholic...just to give you some background. and yes, i find it disgusting the so many catholic priests have abused children...but i have never heard any muslim condemn any SPECIFIC imam..although i have heard muslims condemn encitement to hatred and violence, but, unfortunately, they are in the minority.
kindest regards,
rc

 
At 4:46 AM, Blogger yochanan said...

sorry but the jewish comm. in arab countries were oppressed. It is not an accident that all most 100% of them left when they could. In some of these comm. the oppression was very bad. Example of this was that young girls were married at the age of 7 in a 'fake' marrage so that they would not be forced into a marrage against there will. When it came time for her real marriage there would be a jewish devoce and then the young woman would marry. The Dhimmi status of a jew in Maroc was worse than a black man in the 'jim crow' south.
In 1948 jews were hung on street lamps in Baghdad. Jews were force to leave with the shirts on there back. There property was stolen. the anti-semitism did not start in the 60's but much earlier.

 
At 4:55 AM, Blogger yochanan said...

Currently Iran in its state press & t.v. is repeating a new version of the old blood libel with a new twist. Instead of just saying jews need blood to bake matzot which the saudi state press said a couple of years ago. the Iranians are saying that jews are stealing 'eyes' from living palistine children. I am sorry but the level of bigotry is the same as was in nazi europe in the 1930's In Israel such talk about muslims would get you arrested and it did get one party banned and it leader put in jail.

 
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At 6:38 AM, Anonymous rc said...

akbar,
i am up late tonight, and i re-read your post. your are usually civil and respectful with your responses, but i take exception to the "have you ever heard of bosnia...i'm sure they showed that on cnn" comment. one, its insulting to suggest that i am a stupid westerner who gets all of his/her viewpoints from cnn (by the way, i despise cnn almost as much as i despise al-jazerra). two, in college, my roommates were both from bosnia, one was a 'serbian' orthodox christian, and the other was a muslim bosniac. they both agreed that the war was 'stupid', but, more tellingly, they BOTH despised the mujahadin that came to bosnia to fight against the serbs. furthermore, when i mentioned the sudan, i was not talking about the darfor region, i was talking about mineral-poor southern sudan, where christians and animists have been butchered by arab muslim militias for over twenty years...but we heard nothing of these atrocities...until sunni muslims started murdering and raping sufi muslims in darfor...does that mean anything to you? to me it means, kill the infidel...great...kill other muslims...get a 'stern' warning from the u.n. and then there is your response to the 'miss world' in nigeria post...are you suggesting that is anything other than madness to kill people over a stupid beauty pageant? you also said "in holland, the killing of an innocent man, i don't condone it one bit" (paraphrasing). that would be fine if this were an isolated incident, but are you aware of a very brave women named hirsi ali? she is a somali-born, former muslim (apostate, punishable by death under sharia), dutch m.p. she has been forced to live in hiding because of death threats against her by dutch muslims, formerly of the middle-east and north africa...is this sane? can you name another religion that has threatened the lives of politicians...and they take the threats so seriously that they must go underground (another dutch m.p., geert wilders has also had to go into hiding).

 
At 6:47 AM, Anonymous rc said...

continued.
i understand the world is not black and white, but do the crazy clerics who bluster on about destroying the dar-al-harb know that? also, you argue that just because people in violence prone areas of the world are muslims, doesn't mean that the violence is caused by islam. but if you look at what their leaders are saying and doing (inciting violence and hatred), that argument rings hollow. you say (paraphrasing), 'southeast asia, geo-political'. can you please let me know what the geo-political reasons are for muslims in thailand bombing innocent buddhist civilians? and in malaysia, the former leader, mohammed matahir (sp) used to hand out 'the protocols of the elders of zion' to all foreign dignitaries...is this sane? i'm sorry for taking up so much of your bandwidth, but i am very interested in what you have to say.
kindest regards,
rc

 
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http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/AbulKasem50519.htm

 
At 9:28 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Akbar, one Muslims poster on the BBC said this "Islam is for all times and all places" when discussing Islam and modernity, the fact is that you and many others believe that those verses that call for the death and killing of unbelievers is no longer relevent, however many Muslims think that those verses still apply. I for one see little hope that the core beliefs of Muslims will ever change because the Koran is the word of God and can not be changed, therefore those beliefs will endure among many of the Muslim population. You mentioned the rapist criminals in Australia, they raped her with no pity because she was Kafir. In Amsterdam a woman ran over a thug who stole her handbag, the surviving thief turned round when there was a rally by the Muslims in that city said he was a good man he never stole from Muslims. Now look carefully at that statement, the whole issue is that the Muslim world has no respect for the non-Muslim world, they can treat them as they feel fit, with only limited protection as a dhimmi. People like me have now understood that point. Until people like you realise that Islam is the problem then you will never have peace and freedom. How about setting up a sub-cult of Islam that has none of the evil in it, but just the good parts, the problem, other Muslims would see you as apostle and kill you for it.

 
At 11:22 PM, Blogger Moron99 said...

The problem is not Islam. The problem is a society that has been taught not to question authority. Combined with vast resources of oil (free money) it is a dictators dream. He can assign the clerics of his choice and exercise complete control over every aspect of life. His people can blame the west, the jews, a zionist conspiracy, or mutant dolphins for all the shortcomings in society and the people are prohibited from questioning him or holding him accountable. As with all things, if you tell a lie often enough people will begin to believe it. THE PROBLEM IS NOT ISLAM.

The problem is a society that has been trained to never ask questions and never dispute the truth as told to them. A minor entry about doubting god's wisdom and going to hell has been expanded to encompass all of those who hold power. But even that is not a flaw of Islam. Islam strictly forbids worshipping false idols. These leaders have expanded the realm of god to include themselves and in so doing made themselves into false idols. But the fires of hell await anyone who would question a god. The people are trapped in hell until some has enough gonadz and charisma to call them what they are. Self appointed false gods.

 
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At 9:18 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a Muslim and I dont know why us Muslims are such cowards when it comes to criticizing Islam. Mohammad is a historic figure and the Koran a historic document. There is no proof for any of these fables and stories. Anybody with half an iota of a brain can see that this is another Arab nationalist play by Mohammad who also tried to improve his society. The part about Gibrael and revelation are just pure bullshit and anybody who falls for such drivel, better be stuck in that drivel, because us free thinking people dont need a bunch of idiots.

And Akbar, if you have any doubt, Mohammad (may he burn in hell) slept with an 8 year old girl, and ordered people he did not like to be assassinated.

To think that there is anything devine about Islam (or Chritstianity or Judaism, etc.) is so stupid that if you cant condition yourself out of this "meme" (virus of the brain), then you should remain in it, and you are a lost case.

True spirituality does not need Allah or God or heaven or hell or any such asinine constructions and low level metaphysics suited for barbarians.

Grow up and get a life Akbar.

Behnam Arsalan

 
At 5:40 PM, Blogger Akba said...

to the last anonumous,
Before you go insulting me and calling me names. first go read what i wrote about, you jack ass.

 
At 8:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Akbar - I have not insulted you and there is no wish to insult you. Criticizing a religion is not the same as insulting its believers. BTW I do enjoy your writings immensely.

I am saying that Islam and other religions are man-made constructions and there are no proofs to any of this divine and holy self-referential stuff. Subjective spiritual yearning is a hormonal issue with the brain - and this has been proven.

It would be much more productive for people to attack Mohammad and Islam, than it would be to lament the "abuse of Islam by rulers and sheikhs". The problem is not the charlatans who abuse Islam. You will always find these people and you cannot go about and eliminate people for their abuse of ideology. The problem is with Islam as a religion and its acceptance by unenlightened people.

No - attacking Mohammad the tyrant is not the same as attacking you or a follower. It is not a personal attack to criticize Mohammad who is a historic figure.

B. Arsalan

 
At 9:38 PM, Blogger Akba said...

B. Arsan,
I quote you..'Grow up and get a life Akbar'
Sorry, you were saying...

Look man, I agree with you whole heartedly about Islam, Mohammed and the whole thing. Both my Posts regarding Islam make my views very clear on this subject. So, without wishing to offend you, next time please read carefully my posts and what i say in them before casting inaccurate judgment on me or my religious views or motivations.

Ps. If you had bothered to read through, you would have figured out that i'm an athiest myself.

thank you
Akbar.

 
At 8:34 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

More power to you Akbar -

What do you think that in order to get at the root of the bondage to Islam, it is important to expose Mohammad and Islam itself.

Otherwise, political and religious arguments are not going to wash with this crowd. This crowd firmly believes they are the chosen people and their history is one of foreigners trying to wage crusade on them as infidels. I mean they really really believe that Koran is word of god even to that apostrophe or period (if any), and the rest of the world is out to get them and that is why they are so miserable. They even think that Arabic is the chosen language of the universe !!!

Let us not shy away and lets say as it is. Let us say the facts. Mohammad wedded a 6 year old and slept with her at age 8. This is the level by which a brainwashed person can understand. Otherwise reason and logic will not go very far.

I enjoy yor blog a lot, and keep up the good work.

Sharifabadi

 
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Tell me, why is everyone fighting Islam likes and worships one superbeing’ Right? “GOD” ALLAH well doesn’t Christianity worship “GOD” Though we do not call him ALLAH Right, Is that the only thing that separates us ? obviously, Well what or who are we arguing about, I mean there is only one “GOD” Right Or is ISLAM’s “GOD” different Then Christianity’s “GOD” The only thing I can see is the word Allah. I mean to all us and I mean all of us as Earthlings “GOD IS GREATEST “. Actually compared to all of us EARTHLINGS “ GOD IS GREATEST”. So what makes a person better than the other or evevn GOD by screaming before they die ALLAH AKHBAR
“ GOD IS GREAT”. Let us all repent and follow GOD’S LAW not someone’s interpretation saying I should die for their cause, Because our cause should be to make GOD proud of us not some person,be him a ; Sheik, President, Ayatollah, Prime Minister, or anyone even a Priest or Holy Man NO ONE IS HOLLIER THAN GOD, and only if by my own eyes would I do anything that someone says GOD orders,; but by his very own mouth.; think about it would GOD want you to kill yourself for him? And not just killing yourself but several or hundreds of human beings, Think about it why would GOD make a human the executioner: if one of the versus says to punish by the sword for not obeying his laws if he has the final judgement? Then WHO ARE WE TO JUDGE? Or even PUNISH except for our own earthling rights as stealing and any other social responsibilities. But any Holy Laws, Only (ALLAH GOD) By his words is the JUDGE and EXECUTIONER,. Only thing I can think is the extremist’s are bending Prophet Mohammed’s words to suit their own reasons to start JIHAD. I am open to anyone explaining to me the reason. I plead to anyone thinking about joining AlQaeda or the Taliban or any other JIHADISTS group Hezbollah Hamas to think about this,.I mean really who is someone to order you to your death, BUT GOD HIMSELF.

 
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